The miracle of the sun in 1917

          

In 31. October 1917 some 30,000-40,000 people, some say 100,000, were gathered on a field in Portugal to see the miracle that was predicted earlier by three local children and widely announced in newspapers. Some people say that they saw nothing, but a large number of people told that they saw the sun whirling and changing color, moving closer to the Earth and then returning back to its normal position in a zigzag movement. Vatican sent Father John De Marchi to investigate the miracle by doing research and interviewing people. He spent seven years (1943-1950) in the hamlet of Fatima and concluded that the miracle is worth of belief. Two of the three children, Francisco and Jacinta Marto, died young and are now canonized saints of the Catholic Church.

            Several skeptics have offered non-miraculous explanations to the unusual behavior of the sun: they either suggest mass self-deception/hallucination or some very or at least fairly rare meteorological event that could have caused the sun to look like it made these movements. All these explanations fail. The sightings could hardly be imaginary because one eyewitness, Afonso Lopes Vieira, who did not remember the predictions made by the children, saw the strange behavior of the sun from his veranda. A rare meteorological event might explain the seemingly strange behavior of the sun (though the claimed  behavior is nothing similar to e.g. the miracle of the sun in Brazil in 2011), but it could not account for the rare event being predicted days earlier. Predicting correctly the time and a place of a rare meteorological event in the first try is certainly a miracle. It clearly exceeds anything Nostradamus managed to do in his whole book of prophesies: Nostradamus did not give the time or the place and the only accurate prediction he made, the death of Henry II of France, need not be a real prediction as this death could well be a result of a conspiracy that Nostradamus knew of.

            When I told my wife that I will write a post of the Fatima miracle of the sun, she replied that in Poland thousands (or was it tens?) of people saw Saint Mary in a window and it was a stain from washing liquid. It may be so in Poland, but the 1917 miracle of the sun is something different. This was a predicted event and very many people saw a the sun in the sky to behave strangely. There are two photos of the event. The first one shows the crowd and a large whirling ball in the sky. Clearly, this ball cannot be the sun. It is too large and too dim. The second photo is more certain to be authentic. It does not show people at all. There seem to be two suns, the smaller one being close to the ground and in eclipse. Newspaper journalists were sent to record this event, but for some reason they did not make photos or film showing the movements of the sun. Some consider this evidence that the sun did not make movements, I consider it as evidence that they were told not to make photo evidence, or this evidence was not made public for the reason that it would reveal what was not to be revealed.

            The miracle of the sun is worthy of believing for those who believe in miracles. I do not. I have equal difficulty in believing religious miracles than miracles in scientific theories. For instance, the present scientific myth of how the world was created has three major miracles in it: something came out of nothing (the universe in the Big Bang), life came out of non-life (the nearly impossible theory of Darwin’s warm soup that organizes itself to a replicating organism) and conscious life came out of non-conscious life (which we cannot even imagine how to repeat it with computers). So, I do not believe in this modern myth. Equally difficult it is for me to believe that the sun made strange movements in 1917. There is an alternative theory that is much easier for me to believe.

            Sometimes in early 1990s I was walking with my wife and we saw in the cloudy night sky (it was winter) what certainly looked like moving UFOs. Undoubtedly they were created by a light thrower directed from the ground to the clouds. The sky in Fatima in 1917 seems to have been completely cloudy and the faintly shining sun that the people saw could very well have been a reflection of a light thrower in the clouds. Whirling, changing color, dim silvery shine, approaching the Earth and making zigzag movements are all easily done with a light thrower. Pope Pious XII saw similar behavior of the sun four times in a week in 1950 in the Vatican garden, there are his handwritten notes on the events showing that it was a real event and not ordered by the Pope. I suggest the same arrangement was used.

            The technical problem of the miracle of the sun is thus explained and we get to the more interesting issue: why this miracle was made and what the Fatima prophesies actually say?

            The miracle of the sun occurred in 31. October 1917.  I found one event of interest that also happened in that day. This is from the Wikipedia: “The decision to release the (Balfour) declaration was taken by the British War Cabinet on 31 October 1917.” The declaration was published 2. November 1917, but decided 31. October. Zionists had negotiated with the British since 1914. The negotiations started four days after the World War I started. It was considerably much easier to predict that the settlement in favor of Zionists would be reached in the meeting that was scheduled to 31. October 1917 than for the children of Fatima to foresee a rare meteorological event in that day. If the sun symbolized the newly born Israel, the Kingdom of Heaven, coming to the Earth, then what do the prophesies symbolize?

            The children first met a man, who told that he is the guardian angel of Portugal, but not much is told of him. They saw a woman many times. She looked serious and at some point she was shining of light, as would be the result if a light thrower was pointed at her. She showed the three children three visions. All three children saw the same visions, from which I suspect that they saw a film, probably in a box of some kind. Countryside young children, like the Fatima children were, had probably never seen a movie before. This explains why the messengers chosen to meet Saint Mary were young peasant children from Portugal.

            The children probably did not know much of the World War I. Portugal sent two divisions to fight in France, about 20,000-30,000 men, but the war was far. In the first vision they saw the Hell, or that is how they interpreted it. I think they saw a film that symbolized the war, the destruction of the enemies by the enemies, made by someone for whom the fighting sides were both enemies. That the first vision was of the World War I is shown by Mary saying that this war will end soon but a greater war will start. The greater war, the World War II, was necessary as the people had to be forced to move to the newly promised home land. For the children a prediction that the war will end soon and the men can return home probably meant that half of the boys in conscript service from their village were not in garrison but in the war. They would not have connected the film with the war but with Hell.

            The only Fatima child, who survived to adulthood, Lucia dos Santos, wrote the first and second vision on a paper published in 1941. All three children saw this apparition. There is no reason to assume that she did not record it correctly. Let us look at the text of the first secret of Fatima:

            “Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

            The frightful demons resembling unknown animals in a World War I scene are probably soldiers with a gas mask. There is nothing in this apparition that cannot fit to a battle in the World War I. The second vision was of Russia. This is correct, the Soviet Union had not yet been established. Let us read the second apparition, also written down by Sister Lucia and published in 1941:

            “You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”

            Pope Pius XI was the Pope during 1922-1938, therefore this apparition cannot derive from 1917. The first mention by Lucia of Consecration of Russia is from the autumn of 1929 and the vision by Lucia of Blessed Mary took place in the night 13. June 1929. Probably this is the time of the apparition, if it was an apparition. I expect that she did meet a woman that night. Let us check when Leon Trotsky was expelled from Russia. It was in February 1929. Before that time the Soviet Union was practically ruled by Jews, then Stalin took over. Trotsky had to leave, but no-one could leave the Soviet Union for Palestine. Apparently Russia made her errors at this time. If Blessed Mary’s warning is not heeded, there will be a war and persecution of the Church. Indeed, there came the World War II, but this we knew already from the first apparition. The second apparition mentions unknown light in the night sky. The Wikipedia suggests Aurora Borealis of 25. January 1938, but this is too late. In 1927 was seen a very bright comet (Comet Skjellerup–Maristany) for 32 days. From the text it is not clear if the great sign given to you by God has already happened or will come in the future. It it has already happened, Blessed Mary came to explain how God’s punishment can be avoided. The cure is Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart, whatever that means. Several Popes have made rituals for that purpose, but what is the intended meaning? Blessed Mary was the mother of Jesus. Jesus as a very good son would like her mother to be honored. But who is the mother of Christianity? That would be Judaism. So, who is the mother of Jesus and what were the errors of Russia in 1929? In any case, Blessed Mary’s warnings were not heeded and the Second World War was started by Hitler, who at least partially was helped to power by bankers. Hitler persecuted Jews, not the Church, and as a result many Jews moved to Palestine and founded Israel. Surely the true Church was persecuted as the war came, but the second great war was decided already in the first apparition in 1917, long before Hitler. Therefore, what was the true Church of Blessed Mary and why is it Saturdays and not Sundays in the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays?

            Finally, let us go to the last secret. Some people think that the third secret was not revealed in 2000 in its totality, but I think it was. The text is as follows:

            “The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fátima, on 13 July 1917.
I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine. After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!’. And we saw in an immense light that is God, something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it, a Bishop dressed in White. We had the impression that it was the Holy Father. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.”

            This is the third secret, so it was revealed to Lucia after June 1929. It does not talk of the assassination attempt on John Paul II in 1981, though this attempt was very possibly inspired by this secret (which was not revealed at that time and only known to few, notably to those who gave it to Lucia). It is not about apostasy of the Catholic Church. It talks about the destruction of Christianity, or at least the Catholic Church, which explains why this secret was not revealed for a so long time. The souls making their way to God were sprinkled with the blood of the sacrifice as was done to Aaron and his sons in Exodus 29:21 and as Moses sprinkled blood on Israelites in Exodus 24:8. It is not a Catholic Church ritual, it is an Exodus ritual. Exodus demands a sacrifice, as the first born of Egyptians were killed and a lab was sacrificed. When Jesus was in front of Pilate, the crowd shouted that his blood will be on us. It is not anger, it is sprinkling sacrificial blood and this is why Pilate’s wife, who maybe knew of these rituals, did not like Jesus to be crucified. There is every reason to suspect that in the third secret of Fatima the souls going to God sprinkled with blood are Jews sacrificed in the persecutions of the Second World War. Why is the cross in the third secret made out of cork? It is not because cork floats and the secret says that a large part of the world will sink to water. It is because cork is weak as the message of this secret is the destruction of Christianity.

            John Paul II did understand the message after the assassination attempt and he did his best to crash Communism and let the people kept by the Pharaoh to return home, and he did consecrate Russia to oligarchs. A peace that followed was brief and the Catholic Church is again under attack, as the third secret, like all secrets of Fatima, are already decided and cannot be changed by following the proposed cures. 

            There is a conspiracy theory that Lucia dos Santos was changed, according to one version that she was changed even twice. This is because her appearance does change. Originally she has long twisted teeth and her chin is pulled backwards. Then she has perfect teeth and her chin pushes forward. In her old age her teeth are small and jaws very visible. Her chin pushes forward, in some photos quite prominently. I think she is the same person. At some point she had a dental fix and got perfect artificial dentures, but the original teeth were not removed: they were shortened. She did not use the dentures in old age and her original teeth show, but they are much shortened. I do not know if dentists shorten teeth, but this is the only explanation I can think of for the change of the teeth, provided that the person is not changed. As for the chin, I tried pulling back my chin, and it does result into a look like Lucia had in her early years. It is possible that her chin was always rather prominent, but she pulled it back at least in photos.

            To whom were the Fatima predictions directed? If we start from the assumption that 31. October 1917 is the day the Balfour declaration was accepted and it is connected with the Fatima predictions, then the first message is not intended for the Church. Indeed, the Catholic Church investigated the apparitions first time in 1943, after Lucia had written the two first predictions on paper in 1941. The miracle of the sun in 1917 and somebody must have asked the children of the prediction at that time. Let us assume that the children did describe the first apparition to somebody in 1917. If this somebody knew more of the war, he would have recognized from the descriptions that it is what happened in Verdun or Somme or some other battle ground. If he also connected 31. October 1917 with the Balfour declaration 2. November 1917, he might have thought in two ways. He might have realized that there is a very powerful group behind the Zionists and he should not oppose them, or if he was religious, he might have concluded that God is watching over His Chosen Nation.

            The two later apparitions probably were intended to the Church. The third apparition may have been a film, that is, assuming that the apparition was of human and not of divine origin. The apparition describes rather well what happened to priests, monks and nuns in Russian in 1918. They were Orthodox and considered veneration of Saint Mary an important part of Christianity. Unless the apparition was a divine one, it must have been made after these Orthodox priests were killed by Cheka in the most cruel way. For Cheka they may have been sacrifices for some ritualistic purpose of cleansing the souls for the soon coming Exodus, which in 1929 was hindered by Stalin. The scene in the third apparition is naturally a warning, the death of Christianity and Christian clergy. Lucia told that the letter containing the apparition should be opened when she dies or in 1960, whichever comes sooner. The letter was not opened in 1960. Some sources claim that Lucia would have told that she picked up 1960 herself and it was not told in the apparition. I find this unlikely. Let us notice that 1960 is one hundred years from 1860 and look at the start of Zionism. Chaim Lorje founded the first Zionistic association in 1860. It was the Association for the Colonisation of Palestine. Lorje was inspired to do so by Judah Alkalai and Zvi Hirsch Kalischer, two Kabbalists. Alkalai and Kalischer had the backing of Isaac Crémieux, Moses Montefiore and Edmond James de Rothschild. This was the pre-Zionistic group of Jewish Freemasons.

            Alkalai declared that the year 1840 was the Year of Redemption. The year of redemption was not a single year, but a century from 1840 to 1939, the days of Messiah. If Jews would not return to Palestine in this one hundred years, a new “year” would start in 1940. It would be one of great hardship when “with an outpouring of wrath will gather our dispersed”. The outcome – the return to the Promised Land – would be the same, but under much harsher circumstances. Here we have an exact prophecy of Hitler and persecutions of Jews starting in 1939. For those who believe in prophesies, this must be amazing. For those, who do not believe in real prophesies but quite much believe in prophesies that were written after the event or were arranged to happen, both cases are common in the Bible, this is a clear proof that Hitler did not simply come from somewhere. He was chosen for making the persecutions and the result of these persecutions would be new Israel. We can see the shadowy group right here: Freemasons, Kabbalists and a Jewish millionaire. There were also socialist/Communists like Moses Hess. The Jewish millionaire wanted to realize a millennial dream of being the Messiah and taking the Jews back to their home land. What higher goal could a millionaire have?   

            We can date the involvement of Freemasons in Zionism by Manuel Mordecai Noah. He was a Freemason and in 1825 he made the first Zionistic attempt by creating a refuge to Jews called Ararat. Her had no support from any other Masons. Thus, 1825 is too early. In 1860 there was the first Zionistic organization: the Association for the Colonisation of Palestine, thus 1860 is too late. The prophecy of Judah Alkalai gives the year 1840 and I accept this as the year when the Masonic pre-Zionistic program started.

            There was a practical reason why Masons wanted to move Jews to Palestine. It had little to do with messianism and nothing to do with the geopolitical goals of England. The reason was that Jews in Europe did not fit the the planned Masonic society, that is, a democracy. Jews in Europe had since the Middle Ages been kings Jews. They were given privileges, such as the right of practicing usury and not being drafted to the army, and they were under restrictions, such as that they could not own land and become equal to land owning nobles. King protected Jews from the people and taxed the rich Jews heavily for their very profitable professions of usury, long distance trade, tax collection, running state monopols (e.g. salt, mines, tobago etc. in Poland) and running state farms. Rich Jews supported the majority of poor Jews. Jews were educated and guaranteed governmental jobs. The Jewish population grew much faster than the non-Jewish population, which shows that their situation usually was better than that of the main population.

            When Russia, and after the WWI Poland, removed the privileges of Jews, the Jewish population was expected to assimilate with the people, but they did not do so. They still acted as a group because of the religious command of loving your brother. This brother/neighbour means a fellow Jew, not a Gentile. Gentiles were seen as enemies. When Jews left ghettos and joined the society, they did not assimilate. They tried to takeover some professions and again have their old system of niche professions in the society. This could work in a monarchy where the king used Jews as middlemen between himself and the people, but it could not work in a democracy as a group is always stronger than a single person. In a democracy people should act as individuals, if some group supports its own members, then there is no equality. Therefore Jews either had to change their lifestyle or leave. Jews would not change their lifestyle as practicing usury against non-Jews but not against Jews is a religious command in the Mosaic law. The essence of the Mosaic law is loving your brother and not loving the others. This created the so called Jewish Question. There never was for instance a Gypsy Question, though there was a gypsy minority in Europe and gypsys also separate from the society. This is because gypsys never tried a takeover, nor did they never act as middlemen, nor did they practive usury and accumilate significant capital, but Jews did.

            There was still a third reason: some people in the Jewish community, most probably some practical Kabbalists, made ritual murders. This practice was the second reason for expulsions of Jews from many European countries. The first reason for these expulsions was usury. Enlightened Jews, like Cremeaux and Rothschild, had to spend great efforts to convince the European people that all accusations against Jews were false. Ritual murders were made in order to speed up the messianic times and the time of redemption. They could not be stopped in any other way than by creating the time of redemption when Jews would return to Palestine. The solution for the Jewish Question could only be the restoration of Jews to Palestine. It required creating antisemitism to push Jews to Palestine and as they still did not go, it required persecutions of Jews and forcibly moving them to a place from where they could be transported to Palestine. This plan was to take over one hundred years.

            In case you find it hard to believe that a banking dynasty (whose job includes calculating how the interest grows in time, one percent doubles in 70 years and so on) could plan a plot that could take one hundred years to be realized, then let us look at the Protocols:

            “When we at last definitely come into our kingdom by the aid of COUPS D’ETAT prepared everywhere for one and the same day, after definitely acknowledged (and not a little time will pass before that comes about, perhaps even a whole century)…” Protocol 15.

            Notice the word century and of antisemitism:

            “Nowadays, if any States raise a protest against us it is only PRO FORMA at our discretion and by our direction, for THEIR ANTI-SEMITISM IS INDISPENSABLE TO US FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF OUR LESSER BRETHREN. I will not enter into further explanations, for this matter has formed the subject of repeated discussions amongst us.”

            This Masonic pre-Zionistic group was the main force in the creation of Israel. It was them who started Zionistic associations and a farming school in Palestine, bought land for settlers in Palestine, made the Galveston program, got the Balfour declaration and the acknowledgement of Israel from the USA (here it was exactly the Bnai Brith and Masonic connections). The official Zionist organization did not manage to do practically anything: they did not have much support among Jews and they had no power in international affairs. Is is so difficult to believe that the pre-Zionists did more than that: they started both world wars, they supervised both Russian revolutions. Here we have the group behind the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy and the proof of it is Judah Alkalai’s prophecy of the Year of Redemption. Either there was such a group, or we have here a true prophecy.

            Returning to the miracle of the sun and the three Fatima secrets, either we here have a real miracle and obscure prophesies, or somebody made this miracle and the prophesies have a meaning that needs to be decoded. I guess it is possible to claim that the 40,000 strong crowd in 31. October 1917 did not see anything, but this would be rejecting many eyewitnesses simply because of not wanting to believe what they said. Personally I think they did see something and the fact that there are no good photos shows that nobody should look too carefully to what they saw. There is a more recent apparition of Saint Mary in Cairo 1968, Our Lady of Zeitoun. There are many eyewitnesses and photos from this event. The apparitions lasted for two years. The first apparition was in April 2, 1968. Mary did not say anything. I think these apparitions can be associated with the political situation at tha time.

            The Six-Day War was fought June 5-10, 1967. Israel defeated Egypt and Syria in what may appear as a miracle, but it is explained by better intelligence information and better weapons. The book The service, memoirs of Reinhard Gehlen explains the background of this war on page 340 (of 422 paegs). Gromyko visited Cairo before the war and encouraged them to attack. He did not reveal to Egypt the latest Soviet intelligence report saying that arabs would surely lose. Gehlen thinks it is because after a defeat arab countries would have to turn to the Soviet Union for military assistence. Gehlen had sent ex-Nazis to help in building Egypt’s intelligence. These ex-Nazis knew precisely what weapons Israel had got from West Germany and they could correctly estimate that arabs would lose, but they also did not say anything. Thus, though the idea of attacking Israel came from arabs, they were double cheated both by the West and by the Soviets. I think the apparitions of Maria were created in order to frame the Israel victory as God’s miracle and get more support to the new borders of Israel. If so, Our Lady of Zeitoun was very similar to Out Lady in Fatima. Naturally, it is possible for as believer to strip these political connections from both apparitions and to consider them as real messages from God. I cannot show this position wrong.    

 

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

           

             

9 Comments

wilfried January 1, 2022 Reply

The apparitions of Mary and the ‘miraculous’ signs she gives here and there in the world (South-East Asia, South and Central America, Europe…), are, in my opinion, above all an exhortation to convert to God and to keep God’s commandments. In that respect, for believing Catholics, they do not differ from the call that Jesus himself made during his life.
Whether one wants to believe in these apparitions is a personal matter. The Catholic Church does not oblige its faithful to believe in them, but neither does it prohibit them once it has given its approval.
As far as the apparitions in Fatima are concerned, the political content of the second secret bothers me a bit. For me, politics has no place in a spiritual vision, and I find it very suspicious, even though at the time the atheistic Soviet regime posed a serious threat to what was then still a Christian Europe. Later, during WW II, the ‘communist danger’ was again used as an argument to urge Catholic youth in various countries to de facto side with Nazism, as if this were a better solution for the preservation of the Christian faith…
The fact that there is not a no single filmfragment of the (pretended) movement of the sun is suspicious, and signficant enough to me not to talk here about a miracle.
I read some conspiracy material in this regard but don’t remember anymor where exactly.

jorma January 1, 2022 Reply

Thanks for your comment, Wilfried. I change the content of this post a bit and continue it with a better explanation why this miracle was different from other miracles in the Catholic Church. Maybe you will come to the same conclusion as me after reading the improved version. I will post it soon.

wilfried January 2, 2022 Reply

I honestly have never heard of our Lady of Zeytoun and her apparitions above this Coptic church in Cairo, so thanks for writing about this. One is never too old to learn.
However, I don’t know what to think of these apparitions in Zeytoun; they are very different from the apparitions of which I had some knowledge until now: 1) in Zeytoun there are no seers involved in these apparitions 2) our Lady appears above the Coptic church, whose outlines are illuminated, but there is no communication, she remains silent, and one is left to guess why she appears here 3)The apparitions take place in a Muslim country of which the majority of the population is very hostile to the Christian faith. 4) The images of our Lady are quite visible to everyone, who is present at that place or watching TV 5) Since our Lady is silent here, there is no particular command either to do any penance, which Our Lady usually does in case seers are involved in the apparition.
These 5 factors combined make me reluctant to give these apparitions any credence.
With the apparitions in Medjugorje on the contrary, where I myself once went on a pilgrimage in the 1980’s and which is a village of pilgrimage very close to Muslim-dominated territory, I have no problem attaching faith to them. In that case, believing seers with a certain education (not illiterate children) are indeed involved, who in ecstasy (have) receive(d) messages from Our Lady whose core is (and still is) an exhortation to have peace between the peoples, and where the seers are also asked for special sacrifice and penance. Only the gifted seers can see and hear our Lady; the casual attendees, on the other hand, absolutely cannot participate in this spiritual experience.
Returning to the Zeytoun apparitions, if they are not authentic, as I suspect, they can only have been staged, and then indeed the question arises as to how and why. Indeed, a connection with the outcome of the war between Israel and Egypt may not be excluded in that case; that seems also to me a plausible hypothesis.

jorma January 7, 2022 Reply

Yes, Zeitoun was seem by very many people. It does seem staged and the question is indeed why and by whom. I also think that in the miracle of the sun in 1917 a large crowd of people did see the sun make strange movements. As the sun does not make such movements, that apparition seems also have been staged, again by whom and why. And why Mary says there: this war will end soon but a new worse one will start. Why does she talk of Russian error spreading to the world? And why the last scene is apparently the destruction of the Christian Church? It could not be staged by the children, they could not have had a light thrower to make a false and dim sun on clouds. Who would do it and talk politics? Not a joker, probably not a Catholic, why a Catholic should talk about Russia? A politician. Wanting someone to believe that the signing of the Balfour declaration is so important that Mary brings a sign from God. I cannot find a better explanation for anybody staging the miracle of the sun. Such apparitions as in Medjugorje are different, religious experiences. I can accept that they are real, but not in this our space-time. But in Zeitoun and Fatima they were real in our space-time and not seen only by seers. In Fatima non-believers also saw the sun make movements if we believe to interviews by Vatican, and why not to believe them?

wilfried January 14, 2022 Reply

Interviews or written documents (or books for that matter) do not necessarily (re)present the truth, or the whole truth. Whom can you believe completely unless you were present at an event and a witness yourself to judge it (like myself in Medjugorje)?
I do not have necessarily more trust in religious authorities than in civil authorities.
As a small example to explain it.
As you know, in my youth I’ve been in a contemplative community for several years. Silence was important for a monk; monks did have to refrain from talking, and during meals we were not allowed to talk at all, only to eat and listen to the lecture, i.e. in the case of my community first to an extract of the official minutes of the abbey from past events in its history, and then to a spiritual lecture. This was custom in this community. One day, we were listening to minutes which dealt with an event that happened during the second World War (a difficult period for this community). I don’t remember the details, at any rate, one of the older monks, former professor at a university in my country, approached me as a young novice, and told me that what was told in the minutes of the abbey was not at all the truth…
When such a thing can happen even in a contemplative community, why would I have more trust in higher levels like the Vatican in Rome.
That’s also one of the reasons I don’t like to comment on historical events or evolutions. I’m not in a position to judge what is ‘completely’ true or not in all what’s written or said, so I refrain from commenting on those topics.

jorma January 14, 2022 Reply

“That’s also one of the reasons I don’t like to comment on historical events or evolutions. I’m not in a position to judge what is ‘completely’ true or not in all what’s written or said,”

Agreed, Vatican can err or lie. Many people think that nothing happened in the sky in Fatima in 1917. But if one wants to check a historical hypothesis, like if there existed the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy where creating Israel was a main issue, then one has to judge historical events and evolutions and evaluate something as true and something else as false. I think historians do just that. Historians and scientists tend to stay away from miracle stories, but it is only because they apriori assume that these stories are fictional, or even if not fictional, it is not good to discuss them in serious research. I fortunately do not need to publish or to keep my job in the academy, so I can address any topics. As this conspiracy was inspired by Kabbalists, it would not be surprising that there are miracles and that the miracles were fabricated, as that is what Kabbalists did. How else Samuel Falk, Baal Shem of London in 1700, got miraculously his cellar filled with firewood? A real miracle, or maybe a fabricated one and the wood was stolen? But miracles were essential in their job. There had to be miracles when Israel was to be reborn, as Joel 2:30 so says, and who would se these miracles? Only Jews? No, also servants. Servants will propheticize Joel 2:29 as the children of Fatima. Somewhere this would have had to happen.

wilfried January 14, 2022 Reply

If I understand the end of your answer correctly, the ‘miracle’ of Fatima could possibly be considered in light of the prophecy of Joel 2:29-30, as its realization/confirmation. If so, then logically there must have been some connection between the policies of the Vatican and the goals/aims of Zionism during that period… Has this ever been researched by historians?

jorma January 14, 2022 Reply

There was some kind of connection since Pope Pious XII, who approved the apparition, did see a similar sun miracle in Vatican’s garden in 1950. There are his handwritten notes of it, so he did see and did not invent the story. If, as I assume, the sun miracle was fabricated, then someone in Vatican, but not the Pope, made this sun miracle in Vatican garden in 1950. Vatican has long ago been infiltrated. Remember the case in 1980s when Vatican banker, Freemasons of Propaganda Duo and mafia were in cooperation. One was hanged Freemason style under a Bridge in London. I do not think any historian wants to investigate such issues. Such works can only appear as underground conspiracy theories.

jorma January 14, 2022 Reply

Talking of Joel 2:31, you do realize that in 1917 there was a blood moon (complete moon eclipse) visible from Jerusalem 4-5 July and a partial sun eclipse, also visible form Jerusalem though only 34%, in 23 January. This is very rare as for Jerusalem. The miracle of the sun was later, so these were already known. There cannot be a complete sun eclipse visible form Jerusalem before year 2241, so partial is the best you get if you want to pick up a year for Joel. Ever seen the Seventh Seal (Demi More etc). A Jewish boy there uses the prophecy from Joel 2:31. That is the Jewish prophecy of the time of Redemption, but the Year of Redemption was announced as 100 years from 1840 by Judah Alkalai, a friend of Rothschild and Cremeaux, i.e., the Freemasons and Zionists.

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